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Forum:Ordina de parolas en un demanda
Cual es le corecta ordina de parolas en un demanda? "pronom+verbo" o "verbo +pronom"? como tu es? --> + + cual es tu nom? --> + + + etc Daniel *La regula es ce la sujeto presede sempre la verbo. Donce "como tu es?" es coreta. Ma la verbo "es" es un caso strana: la cosa ante lo e la cosa pos lo es la mesma! Donce "cual es tu nom?" e "tu nom es cual?" es ambos bon. Ance "cual tu nom es?" es coreta, par esta regula de ordina. Si nos considera un otra verbo – per esemplo "leje" – la formas coreta es "como tu leje?", "cual tu leje?", e "cual libro tu leje?". La formas "como leje tu?", "cual leje tu?", e "cual libro leje tu?" no es vera coreta (ma on pote comprende los). Simon *Sorry. I'm really confused by this point. How is it possible that "cual" is a noun? "cual" means "what". That is not a noun. It seems odd that Spanish, English, German and Swedish (the languages I know) seem to agree that "como tu es?" is wrong because the verb should come before the noun in a question. ::: Como estas tu? ::: How are you? ::: Wie bist du? ::: Hur mår du? *in lfn, "cual" serves as a interrogative pronoun (cual tu leje?) or an interrogative determiner (cual libro tu leje?). "como" serves as an interrogative adverb/adjective (como tu construi un casa per aves?). both can be used as complements to "es". even though most European languages reverse the order of the subject and verb to make questions, lfn tries to respect those who do not know European grammars by keeping the rules of order as simple and clear as possible. We usually move the question word to the beginning of the sentence or clause, which isn't entirely necessary (e.g. in english one can say "he did what?" - in lfn "el fa cual) but is easier because we use the same words as subordinators (the words introducing subordinate clauses), and those work most easily if the subordinator comes at the beginning of the clause ("the man who runs things" - "la om ci opera cosas", and so "who runs things?" - "ci opera cosas?"). it all seems confusing, perhaps, but it is all designed carefully (sometimes after much "argument") to be as simple, clear, and consistent as possible. jorj **I think I am slowly wrapping my head around this concept. I can see that a "cual" question is answered with a noun/pronoun while a "como" question is answered with an adverb/adjective. So I can imagine a rule that "cual" is treated gramatically as a noun and "como" is not. But I still run into problems with "ci" because it seems to work like "cual" some of the time, and like "ce" some of the time. You can write "la fem ci me ama" and "la tarta ce me come", but while you can write "ci fem tu ama?" you have to ask "cual tarta tu come?". Daniel ***Ah, but you can't write "ci fem tu ama?", because "ci" is only ever a pronoun. "Which woman do you love?" is in fact "cual fem tu ama?". And you can't write "la tarta ce me come", because "ce" is only ever a conjunction introducing a clause that functions like a noun in the containing sentence – e.g. "me bonveni la sujesta ce nos come" (I welcome the suggestion that we eat, i.e. somebody has suggested that we eat, and I welcome that suggestion), or "ce nos acorda es bon" (that we agree is good). "Ci" can be either relative or interrogative, but it's always a pronoun – it's nothing more than a shorthand for "cual person". "Cual" can also be either relative or interrogative, plus it can be either an adjective (determiner) or a pronoun: it's an adjective in "cual cafe tu prefere?" and a pronoun in "cual tu prefere?" It's a relative pronoun in "me ia gusta la musica cual tu ia escuta". (The situation with these three words used to be much less logical. I assume you're using up-to-date learning materials, such as the grammar on this wiki, rather than obsolete information that's no doubt still sitting around on www.lingua-franca-nova.net.) Simon *Sorry for the confusion caused by my answer! Maybe you misunderstood – which is of course perfectly reasonable, as I replied in a language that you've only just starting learning… But I never said that "cual" was a noun. In "cual tu leje?", as Jorj says, it's a pronoun (meaning "what"). Now some linguists argue that pronouns are in fact a type of noun. Whether you believe them or not, it's certainly true that a pronoun is valid as a noun phrase, and so it's valid as the subject of a sentence. And the subject of a sentence always precedes the verb in LFN. As another example, when tagging direct speech in story-telling, LFN says "‘bla bla bla’, Tom dise" instead of "‘bla bla bla’, says Tom". Simon *Also, I would point out that "how are you?" and "who are you?" are rather special cases in English. We don't say "how read you?" or "what read you?", at least not in recent centuries. Instead we say "what do you read?" with the meaningless auxiliary verb "do". Without "do", the word order would be the same as in LFN. Simon *LFN has a remarkably clean and simple grammar. I like to think of it as the minimum you can get away with without sacrificing expressiveness or intelligibility. But one of the ways it achieves this simplicity is by relying on a strict word order. As a result, the order of words in LFN can occasionally seem peculiar, but it's always logical and consistent with the rules. Adjectives frequently become adverbs, and verbs frequently become nouns – with no change of spelling or pronunciation – purely as a result of the order of the words in a sentence. Simon **Ok. I will keep that in mind -- LFN restricts word order to avoid restricting word ending the way some other conlangs do. Daniel **That's exactly it, in a nutshell. It's a design tradeoff. Simon